Restaurant Rockstars Episode 411

Restaurant Growth, Quality & Cost, Margins, Hooks and Restaurant Marketing that Works

 

 

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Common to all restaurant operators are finding solutions to today’s greatest operating challenges.

In this episode of the Restaurant Rockstars podcast, I speak with Rich Clark, a dynamic Co-Founder and Partner in C & S Restaurant Group of Atlanta. Rich has his eyes on the prize innovating and achieving results in one of the most competitive restaurant cities.

We learn about Rich’s extensive journey through the hospitality industry, starting from his high school days bussing tables to managing high-end restaurants and finally launching his own ventures. Rich shares his experiences working at notable establishments like the Ritz Carlton and his growth during the 2008 recession and the COVID-19 pandemic. He discusses the importance of mentors, strong work ethic, and the challenges of the current labor market. Rich emphasizes the significance of hospitality, maintaining quality in seafood offerings, and the growth and expansion plans for his restaurants. He also shares insights on his daily routine and future aspirations.

Watch or listen as Rich shares his insights on running restaurants including:

  • What makes the biggest different is his restaurant’s success
  • Tracking and maintaining margins amidst inflation and high labor cost
  • Loyalty, influencers and a restaurant marketing plan that works
  • Cross-promoting his restaurants
  • Hooks that keep guests coming back
  • Working with a partner, staying in your lane and agreeing on restaurant strategy

And most importantly, leadership, team spirit, culture & morale that uplevels the guest experience.

Don’t miss this episode!

When I owned restaurants, systems that I created delivered “more than double” the net profit of the average restaurant. I’m going to teach you these techniques so that you can transform your business and boost your bottom line! Check out my Micro Masterclass the “Restaurant Profit Maximizer” Only at www.restaurantrockstars.com/profitmaximizer

Now go out there and Rock YOUR Restaurant!

Roger

Connect with our guest:

https://www.instagram.com/candsseafood

https://www.candsoysterbar.com

http://www.candschowderhouse.com/about.html

 

Thank you for joining me once again. on the podcast. In this business of a thousand details, in these challenging times, we must keep our eye and attention on the details and the bottom line. This week I speak with Rich Clark, the co-founder and partner in C&S Restaurant Group in Atlanta, one of the most Competitive restaurant cities and what this business is doing to stay ahead of the competition.

We talk about what’s made the biggest difference in their restaurant’s success. We, of course, talk about how they’re handling inflation and high labor costs and building a team and leadership, loyalty in marketing and influencers, everything that moves the needle. for their business. You’re not going to want to miss it, so stay tuned.

While we’re speaking about rising costs and shrinking margins, there is a way to overcome these things. There is a way to boost your bottom line and to be really aware of the things you can do to move the needle. I have a course called the Restaurant Profit Maximizer it’s everything I’ve learned in 30 years about having good Double the net profit of the average full serve restaurant with my concepts.

It’s things that you can immediately execute and have the same successes. So check that out at restaurantrockstars.com/profitmaximizer. Now on with the episode.

You’re tuned in to the Restaurant Rockstars Podcast. Powerful ideas to rock your restaurant. Here’s your host, Roger Beaudoin.

Welcome back, everyone. This is the Restaurant Rockstars podcast. So glad you’re with us, and welcome to the show, Rich. Glad you’re here as well.

Thanks for having me. Happy to be here.

Thanks for joining me on the show. Before we get into your restaurant story, I had a chance to look at your website, and it was very impressive from a guest perspective, meaning it gives you the idea of the experience.

It’s elevated, it’s upscale, the food looks extremely fresh, and the spaces are really attractive and beautiful. So we’re going to talk all about your concepts in a moment, but with that said, well done website. Please take us back. Everyone has their own hospitality story where it all began. And tell us where yours begins.

In high school, my dad had a,

A rule that wasn’t playing a sport. You had to have a job. When I was a sophomore, I started bussing tables at a Mexican restaurant and didn’t really fall in love with it there. But I liked it. I liked the high paced. I liked the people I liked, just really everything about it.

I liked the tips. I liked all of it. I liked the back of the house. I actually wound up, I was like, Hey, I want to wash dishes. Cause it was. It was hard. There’s this dishwasher named Mike that I wanted to be better than and all this, and whatever. But when I graduated high school and I went to college, I started waiting tables.

And I liked that. I liked the money and I was pretty good at it. My first job was at the Olive Garden and then I went to work at Steak and Ale and another steakhouse. But in 88, I went to work for the Ritz Carlton. And I guess I was a sophomore at that point. And that one, it was when I was like, all right, man, This is, because no one really wanted to be in the restaurant business, in the eighties, like they do now as much.

Because I was like, I wanted to be an accountant and I wanted to be a business. I kept marketing. I don’t know. I can’t remember the time to change my major, but I was like, all this is what I like. I like being in this environment. I like my general manager. I like the food and beverage executives.

I like these guys are all running around in $2000 suits or whatever it was. Driving BMWs. The only thing they were doing is working a lot. And I’m like, that’s no problem for me. I, I. Said this is what I want to do. And I really wanted to work at the Ritz Carlton and be a manager there. But, I had long hair and I was a wild when I was 21, 22, I don’t think I was quite management material.

So I left and went to work for, with Gunter Seeger at a bistro. He’s a Michelin star chef. And he asked if I wanted to go and be the captain for his restaurant. And I just was maitre d and then manager and I left. And then I went to work for the people for there’s a restaurant called Brasserie Lacoze.

Which is a sister restaurant of La Bernadine. And so I got to work with Madame Zola Coe’s Monday through Thursday, which was really tough. But I did that for three years and I just kept adding to my resume and adding to my resume. And I made sure that wherever I went I wanted to accomplish what I wanted to learn, specifically when I went to work for Miss Lacose and those guys, I knew it was going to be hard.

Back then there weren’t Michelin stars in the states. And I wanted to see what it would be like to work for someone like this. And I found out rather quickly what it was like, and that was, I didn’t think I was going to make it. But I did, and I got really good at it.

And, so then I went to work for another restaurant in Buckhead, Atlanta, which is high end. And it was an upscale it’s called Blue Ridge Grill. It’s a sister restaurant of Bones. And so I learned a whole nother high end steak. Non French, non European which was eye opening for me.

I was like, what do you mean they’re going to pay this money for a steak and baked potato? There’s no salsa, there’s no foie gras, whatever, but it was really neat. And then I left and I was the general manager of the Atlanta fish market in the nineties. And that I really enjoyed. And once again, I wanted to accomplish what I wanted, when I would change jobs.

It was always about what I wanted to put on my resume and what I wanted to learn, because I’m like, one day I’m going to open my own restaurant. And so when I went to work for the fish market it was a volume place, high quality volume. And I said, Hey, this is what I want to do. And the owner Peno Kertasis super nice guy.

I worked for him for six years. He was surprised that this is what, that’s what I chose. Was that with my background? Cause he gave me a number of his restaurants. I think he had 14 or something crazy like that back then. And I said, yeah, this is what I want to do. And he says, why? And I said this is a number, it’s the second busiest restaurant in your company and I want to make it the first business.

I want to make it the busiest. And so we did. And so we just went out there and really went at the numbers and it gave me a chance to really work with numbers and volume. And so that’s what I did for a long time. And then I had the opportunity to open up a restaurant up in the suburbs of a seafood place, of course.

And so I went and hired my partner, the S John Schwank, and He was the chef at Brasserie when I was there. So we were homies from way back when. So we were like, Hey, this is what we want to do. So we worked for this guy for a while and then, things run their course. And we’ll just say that.

And, anger had us open our first place. So we went and opened our first place. It was like, Hey, it was just, how things get. And we were like, man. Let’s do our own thing. We’ll figure it out. And this was in, we started looking at 2006, into 2006. And it took us a while.

I had to go to, I don’t know, 20 something banks. Got an SBA loan by the grace of God. We got an SBA loan and it wasn’t anything that Like it said on the website about not being fully guaranteed 5 percent down. All of that was untrue. But we got it done, second mortgages, 401k. I had to ask my father to put up some collateral.

My dad’s a super nice guy. Paid his first house off when he was 38, but my dad was an airline mechanic, so it’s not like we’re all made up out of money here. And so we opened in June of 2007 and everything was great. And then the recession happened and my partner and I, we did the old adage, we got to where we wanted to be and took our eye off the ball a little bit.

And then the recession certainly made us, hunker down and, we just learned a lot. I don’t know. It just went broke. We’d never, not any bankruptcy, not anything like that, but it wasn’t a lot of fun, filling up, putting liquor bottles up on the back bar, just so you can, empty ones filled with iced tea.

So it looks like it’s, you’ve got some inventory and worrying about payroll week to week, so whenever anything’s bad now, I’m like, Hey man, when there was when the pandemic happened we were all I was like, Oh man, not again. I was like, not again. I’ve worked so hard and I was going to actually go and get some pizza.

And and I was just bummed out. I was in like my, almost in my jammies, my sweat pants. It was this guy who was in the business also. He’s a hospitality. So he goes, ah, man, and I have one of my Hugo’s, my other restaurants, hat on. He says you got to shut down the Bloody Mary bar. I said, I have to, I said, I closed yesterday, man.

I know what’s coming. And I’m like, I’m gonna go home and call American Express if they haven’t cut me off already, because that’s what they did in the recession. And he says, nah, they’re bailing out. And I said, what? And so I watch those things, those news conferences every day with Trump and Mnuchin and then we got our bailout and I was like, oh, we’re going to be okay.

And that was, I said, we’ll be okay. We have a similar

story. I had an SBA loan from my very first restaurant and I must have pledged three different houses and signed personal guarantees and one restaurant led to three, led to more. And it’s I went down that road and sure, you go through those challenges and somehow you make it to the other side.

And then I sold all those and had the brilliant idea of. Buying another restaurant just before the pandemic and went through everything you’re talking about. And you think everything is over. And then the government comes through with bailout money. And I hate the word pivot. You change a zillion times and somehow you make it through.

And wow. Let me ask you a question. Your story is very inspired. Ritz Carlton, of course some of the restaurants you talked about, illustrious properties, obviously, and expectations are high. Now, you mentioned that you had a work ethic and you came into the place with the right approach and attitude.

And a whatever it takes attitude means you polish the silverware, you peel the potatoes, you do whatever they ask you to do, and you try to stand out from your peers and excel, and that’s how you rise up, and then connections, and all those things happen to you. All those things matter. Were there any special people, mentors in your life that really took you under their wing and showed you the ropes and trained you in a certain way, or did you just baptism by fire?

I dove in, I learned everything I could. To you, Alvin. To you,

Alvin. The first one that I can really remember is a gentleman named Danielle Sennet at the Ritz Carlton. And I begged and begged for this job. And I got the job at the luncheon buffet,

which

was which, it was the Ritz Carlton.

I’m like, you wanted to work at night, dining room, but Danielle really took me under his wing. I used to drive him nuts too. I was 21 years old and I lived like right in the bars in Atlanta. And, I, I was a good employee, but. He told me once he’s, you’re like my daughter, who was 21, went to Georgia.

He’s you’re driving me nuts, man. He’s you’re gonna, he’s, he told me, he’s you’ve got an eyes. Like I haven’t seen it a long time. You work like a European, you’re going to blow it. And I was like, Daniel, I’ll never give you a problem again, man. I did it, but he really showed me, coming from.

Casual steakhouse thing and staking out and going to work for a company like the Ritz Carlton. I was behind because I, like I said, I was 21 and I was in the room with 40 year old guys, European guys. And I was over my head, I don’t know, but I’m like, I’m going to set this table up and I’m going to set it up better than you and faster than you.

And I’m going to sell, more forego appetizers or I’m going to sell whatever, and I’m going to learn it. And I used to go in and Danielle would take me, he would show me how to do everything. And I would go in and my friends were cooks. So I would go in early, like however early and just talk to them.

Watch what they were doing. And then afterwards, you certainly going to go out and hang out. And they just talk to those guys and just really talk food all the time. He was a mentor Fabrice Verger and Maggie Lacoste. Maggie, not so much other than just, giving me the 0 1 2, but my GM at Brasserie Lacoste, Fabrice he has his own restaurant.

He was a, I don’t know, he was a captain at Burnett M for however many years. I really enjoyed working with him a lot of, we could work a room and it was just really super fun. And then Pano at Buckhead Life was very special. But the CFO at Buckhead Life, Christo Macrides, because we had I always like numbers I’ve always liked them.

And they were they were easy to me, my dad’s black and white, like I said, he was an airline mechanic, so everything had to be perfect. And numbers are either they’re right, or they’re wrong. There’s, there is no in between. So exactly. So he, The corporate office was right there where I worked.

And, he was real, none of these people were nice to me, mind you, they were nice, but they were, it wasn’t like warm and fuzzy. It was a lot of hard work and a lot of push, push. But he really took me under. His wing and showed me numbers and impressed me and gave me bonuses.

And now he’s a mentor. He’s also a friend. My CPA now, his name’s Dwight Samuels. And he’s about to open a second restaurant. He’s a, he’s an accountant for, I don’t know how many, he’s. He specializes in restaurant accounting and I’ve known him since 94. And I wouldn’t be here if it wasn’t for Dwight during the recession and everything.

And for him being very poignant with me those are the people those guys are really, We’re instrumental in, and my father for sure, and my mother more than anything just, watching them, like I said, they pay their house up for their 40, just working hard. And, just you have a plan and sticking to it, and not making a whole bunch of hoopla about whatever it is that you want to do.

You know what I mean?

Absolutely. I hope that wasn’t

too long of an answer, but

no that’s great. We talked about some past challenges that you’ve overcome. What are some of the current challenges you’re facing now and how are you overcoming those?

The labor market’s changed, but I don’t ever remember the labor market being an easy thing.

It’s changed a little bit. It’s a little tougher to get. Yeah, I don’t even know if that’s really, people, the days of people working, God long, long hours and everything like the battle days, those things have long since passed. But that’s a little tough.

Getting people to show up for interviews is insane. I don’t know if you other. Your other guests ever talk about that, but you can have 10 interviews on Indeed and you’re lucky to get half of them. They just won’t show up. It’s I don’t know what that’s about, but we had that issue

with that restaurant I owned during the pandemic, right?

Yeah. Yeah, it’s every other person. You know what I think it was I think people just wanted to stay on unemployment and they had to report that they were looking. It’s still going, man. They’d set up appointments and interviews and then they just wouldn’t show up, but they’d report, yeah, I applied here.

I applied there. I’m guessing, I’m thinking that’s a part of it. Yeah.

And they still, they’re still doing the same thing, but I probably the biggest, when we have I have one restaurant under construction now. I’m working on a lease on another one which is fun, compliance as you grow being compliant with HR is that’s a growing pain a little bit.

Yes, it is. And I’m not super crazy about the terms that the banks are giving me right now, if I may get that off my chest. Can understand the two points over prime, they say it’s one point over prime, but they juicy on one point at signing. So it’s two points. That’s fine. I don’t, Jerome Powell can figure out whatever prime is going to be.

That’s about way above my pay rate grade, but the five year terms is crippling. Okay. It’d be nice in five years, but I’m not a spring chicken. They’re hitting us with the five year term now instead of, whatever your lease is, you’re being able to depreciate it over 10 years.

So you’re really not making, the bank’s getting paid, the owners and everybody, you have to wait on your money a little bit. But that’s really it, how has

inflation hit you? And have you had to raise the price as much? Have you tried to maintain, if not increase your margins with the highest labor costs ever.

Tell me about that.

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Yeah I did it different. So when, and I’m in Georgia, we opened up first that we were able to open up. I think it was April, whatever the date was, we went, and me being naive and not political, I thought everybody was going to be all happy that it opened, and I put it all on social media, and the people got steamed, and I was like, whoa, I’m just trying to stir some oysters, dude.

But we got to open and what was the question again? I’m sorry. Yeah, I was

just curious about how inflation has impacted the margins. Oh, inflation.

It started going up, and we were, I’m not going to work for free. Steaks were the first one. Tenderloins, I think we were at 38 for a steak.

And I was like, man, I can’t see people paying 55 for a steak. And I was listening to the, and I was listening to the radio and said, steaks are going to be a luxury item. A hundred dollar steak would be normal. And then, we were talking to some friends of mine who own some restaurants what are we going to do?

And I’m like, let’s just crank them up. And I started raising my prices with this stuff. I can sit here and talk prices with you all day. At one point, like grew, I’m a seafood guy. Hooper was, 13 a pound and the next day it’s 32. Unreal. Oh my God. Yeah. Oh yeah. And scallops. So I raised them.

I raised the prices. Put quicker than my competition. Now I haven’t had a, I haven’t increased prices in two years almost two years, but as far as what I paid people, we went, we opened back up in April and then may, and I do my incentive programs with my managers on a quarterly bonus, but I saw that it was hot.

Like it was like, I’m like, okay, this is going to be, not only are we going to, we’re going to be doing pretty well here. We want to whip everybody to a frenzy. So I’m like, I’ll tell you what we’re going to do. We’re going to go monthly. For the rest of the year, we’re going monthly. And I’m like, we, and I’ll just, we’ll just pay out on the month.

And so that got everybody all jazzed up. So I was sitting around after work one day and, everybody, all the managers and everybody get paid. And I have a cook named Oscar. And I said, man, I didn’t think about Oscar and he’s been with me since day one, since 2007. I felt like that big. So I went up and I said, Hey man, how much do you want to make?

And he says, thanks. And I said a number and he went higher and it was a fair number. It seems ludicrous now, but I know people that work hourly for livings and it’s, we’re not asking for these, and I don’t mind. So I said, okay. And I said, who else needs raises? He says he goes, let me finish.

I’ll see you at the bar. So he wrote everything down. He told me how much. And so we just went out and we just and all of the chefs, not all the chefs, a few of the executive chefs like, Oh, I’m not going to be able to make my, percentage of my labor, this, that, and the third. And I’m like, watch.

And it actually got a little lower. I swear that, and I was like, real, I’m very proud of that. So I was, that was back in. So we opened back up in 21. So that was at the end of 21, 22. I didn’t raise prices in 23 and I haven’t raised prices in 24, but I cranked them up pretty hot and heavy then. And I’m like, I couldn’t keep up with it.

I couldn’t keep up with it. And then my, and my, and then my competition, everybody was going market price, this and whatever. And I was like what are you going to do? And then King Crab legs, cause we were buying the Dutch Harbor stuff, the good stuff, and I was paying, I locked, I had a whole bunch of it, I locked in at 26 a pound and that was crazy.

That stuff’s like 45, 50. It was up in the sixties at one point. So I took them off

and I said,

hold up, wrong. So I’m sitting at the bar and this guy comes up at two different people say, Hey, I got king crab at somewhere in Mississippi gambling thing. I don’t gamble over there.

And another one said they had xi

Yeah. And Biloxi, the one said they had ’em at Truex and they told me the price. It was like a hundred twenty five, for pound and a half or something. I’m like, okay, let’s let me try it because I put snow crab on everything.

People started paying it.

No, I get not kidding. That’s awesome. I get, I swear to, I swear on all this. Holy. And so we put that on there and I was like, okay. But the prices are high. So then you have to say, okay, now the service and everything else is you gotta double down on that

because

it’s now it’s, and that’s my biggest complaint is that one of them is, the price is the prices and the, and I understand that, but the price is the price.

I’m making the same net income I did percentages I did before. And I don’t see how anybody can ask me to make less in my opinion,

Is your partner, the chef in your operation?

Yeah he is. He is John’s was he decided he didn’t want to, he no longer wanted to be in the right after the pandemic.

Right when the pandemic happened? Yeah. So he had, he busted his back up a few times and he’s rich, I just, and I said, okay, that’s no problem. So we hired executive, we had a corporate executive chef. And so he’s still a partner. He is. And hope and God willing, will be partners forever. And he just.

We have how we do our management fees and, there’s, fringe business, everything had to be ironed out, but we have a corporate chef and he still helps me out. And I talked to him every other day and, he just no longer wanted to be in the grind.

Does that person Let me ask you who’s really watching the KPIs and the finances, because you’re a numbers guy, but whoever’s in the kitchen obviously also needs to be a numbers guy.

Does he cost out the menu regularly? Do you compare profitability within items, the spread difference, all that kind of stuff, and keep up with it so that you’re maintaining, if not increasing, margins and still offering the value to the guest?

What we do I pretty much do most of that. As far as the numbers go, cause it’s pretty simple.

Like I said earlier, everyone’s on an incentive program. So we have our food costs. You have your food costs, you’ve got your wine costs, liquor costs, beer costs, total beverage cost gets sold, labor costs percentage, health score, and I have a restaurant evaluations. All of those are numbers.

You either make the number or you don’t. Now we get our numbers. We do, we just do sales. We do purchases divided by sales. So we don’t count inventory. We don’t do anything because anybody can juice all that. We just, we mess with that because over the course of it, like I said, we do over a quarter because over a quarter, that’s going to shake out.

So we get our we get our numbers every Tuesday and every Wednesday. Every Wednesday morning at your allotted time, we all have a meeting. We have a phone call and we go over all those percentages I just told you. And then we look at in the kitchen, we look at I look at average rates sometimes the average rate is going to be the average rate, I look at hours, I break it down into hours. So specifically goes to kitchens, the big one. So I look at how many hours we work this week. compared to how much the sales were, how many hours we worked last week compared to the sales, and how many hours we worked last year, same period, compared to sales.

And if there’s some variance there, we discuss it and we go on. As far as the quality of the food, we have spec sheets on who you can and can’t order from. Of course some people sometimes, it’s not so much my let’s just use Red Snapper, for example, we had Red Snapper gate.

Okay. I started seeing on the reviews and reviews also are very, if you use those reviews, you go to reviews with an open mind. There’s your secret shopper. I’m not paying somebody all that money. There’s your secret shopper and kick Yelp out. Cause anybody can put anything, but Google, you had to be there and the open table or res you had to have checked in.

I’m sure there could be some fraud there, but Hey, if you’re going to go that far into it, I’m not. I’m not a detective, but the supplier sometimes is sub out. So I have to manage his suppliers. And that’s where I need help for my corporate chef is for him to put the pressure on the suppliers to say, Hey, you can’t sub out genuine American.

The price is the price, what’s lock in. So that’s how I do it. It’s pretty easy once you get it set up, but you have to have those meetings and your numbers have to come out on time. And that goes back to my CPA, getting those numbers on a consistent basis for me. And then we get the income statements and then we match all those out, but they’re always right there.

Yeah, there’s always that balance between using local purveyors and getting the quality versus the price without the scale of some of the big box places. But then if you work with the big box places, chances are you can buy huge bulk in advance. They’ll store it for you. You don’t have to store it on site and you can lower your price that way.

There’s that balance you gotta reach. But it seems to me your quality is like your local fishmongers and right off the boat and you’re dealing with those types of people because you’re so seafood heavy. Is that how it works?

Yeah, that is. And we, we every want to tell you wide variety and pristine quality, cause that’s in our mission statement.

And that’s really what we go at. We talk numbers and you can have everything. And I was, and I’m like, okay. And I’ll tell my guys, I’m like, all right, if you think that this is blowing you out of the water on your food costs, we’ll put it to the test, man. This isn’t that hard. And if they’re right.

I’m not, I’m, like I say, I love being wrong now, if I’m, if they’re right, but you just stay up on it. And, it’s but the local thing, we’re not, that’s not my, and I’m not dogging on that. By any stretch of the imagination, we spend our time sourcing and hammering out and pulling our hair out on that center of the plate protein a hundred percent.

Of course we want good vegetables and where our air cove comes from, but for me to pay three times more for a carrot that comes from down the street. ’cause we tried it once and it didn’t work, . ’cause no one cared. They care about agreed under the plate. Yep. And we’re not Charleston, we’re not, we’re in Atlanta trying, you can get local stuff, but it’s not you’re in South Carolina or some of these places where, or California, Northern California or Maine or wherever you may be in my opinion, and it’s just not really a hill I want to die on, totally get it, absolutely. Hope I don’t sound like a greedy numbers guy when I say that, but,

let’s talk about your team. What do you look for in either existing team or new hires? What do you expect them to bring to the table based on your reputation, the quality of your restaurants? And then we’ll dive into training as well, your training philosophies.

But what do you look for first? What do you want them to bring to your restaurant?

Hospitality, be hospitable. If you’re, Let’s just, I’m talking about GMs first or managers cause we’re getting to expand, we’re getting ready to expand and we want to promote some people that are, some number twos and number ones.

But the first thing that you have to do is you have to be hospitable. I won’t eat because of the incentive program that we have in place. It’s pretty strong. The my Benefit package is very strong. And I want each person to own that restaurant and make it their own little thing, my CPA actually, he’s he told me once, he says, Rich, you don’t have a little, this is years ago.

And it insulted me. He says, you don’t have a bunch of little riches running around. And I’m like, you know what? I don’t. So let’s go for it. So you have to be hospitable. And I know that’s sounds cliche, but it’s not. And I’m gonna tell you how I judge it. If I don’t see your name. In a review, if I don’t see your name in a review, I don’t get a phone call or a text from a regular and you work for me for six months, you’ll never be a GM in my company.

Because you’re not owning it, you’re not on the floor. I don’t make people do paperwork. We do everything for you. I’m very clear and concise about what I want. These numbers aren’t hard. You order right, we have everything all set up. It’s not, and we have an accounting office that the company pays.

You know what I mean? So you can stay off there. That’s the first thing. The second thing is with, as far as the chefs go, and this goes to John and I, John, my partner, I call him Schwenk, but Schwenk and I’s relationship is, of course you need to be, you have to be able to cook. Okay. And you have to have a passion for the business.

We just don’t want someone that just feels like this is what they are doing because they couldn’t get through college or whatever the reason may be. You have to, we don’t want you somewhere

else.

Yeah. You know what I mean? But we don’t, or somebody who got into, or selling for, a big box or a big, whoever a food service and this side, they want to do that and they’re coming back.

That’s not, that’s sometimes that’s a little tough. We want you to have some passion, but we don’t want you so passionate where you want to be on, whatever TV show all the time and taking pictures on Instagram is a fine line, man, But beyond that you have to be, you also have to be hospitable.

You have, that chef has to have good communication skills and that chef has to be able to work with that general manager. And there cannot be a gap that the front of the house and the back of the house has to be seamless or you’re never going to work for me. That’s a challenge.

In a lot of places, it is because you don’t often see, the cooks on the line under the most difficult heat of the day conditions, battle, the tickets are on the floor and a server has a problem with a meal, whatever.

And she is trying to tactfully bring it to their attention when the tickets are on the floor. And yet you got to get this recook. And it’s sometimes tensions get high and you got to balance.

I think John and I have set a pretty good example and we’ve certainly had our, we’ve gotten in it. We’ve known each other since 94, it’s a long time, man.

So we’ve gotten into a pretty good bit, especially when I was a maitre d and he was a sous chef, way back when. But eh, and then during the recessions too, I struggled on payroll, but it was never anything. Everything’s always water under the bridge. And I go over this, it’s my, I’ve been doing this a while and it works for me and hopefully it’ll continue to work.

But me as a, as an owner, as a leader, I do have to play, monkey in the middle a little bit. And, and fortunately, unfortunately, if I, Wasn’t a restaurateur, I’d probably be a mediaing an attorney, because I’m pretty good at mediating on things and seeing everybody’s side having sympathy and empathy for people just from the way that I was raised from my mom and my dad and my grandparents.

So I’ll always tell ’em like, look, sometimes front the house is stacked. Everyone’s trained, everybody’s ready to go, and we got a bunch of killers out on that floor that know what they’re doing and you lose a cook in the back and they’re on struggle street. Be understanding of that because sometimes we’re going to have a bunch of new people and they’re going to be stacked in the back.

We can’t ring orders in and bust a table or put red on the table. And everybody needs to understand that this whole thing’s cyclical. You know what I mean?

Absolutely.

So that’s how I manage all that.

So Atlanta is a competitive restaurant town. It’s a big city, right? Lots of different restaurants, lots of great chefs and.

Interesting concepts. What would you say your competitive advantage or advantages are? What are your hooks? What really draws people in?

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That’s a good question. I’m an Atlanta boy for a while and Atlanta’s fickle. Atlanta likes the home team. Atlanta likes the home team. A lot. That’s the first thing.

The second is I know what I am. I’m a, time my, all my restaurants are timeless and original. It’s timeless yet original. I know what I want to be. I think about it because I failed. I had a restaurant that closed because I couldn’t explain what it was to anyone. And I’m like, Man, I should just burn a whole bunch of money which is what happened.

But we’re timeless, we’re original, we’re not modern, we’re not trendy. I will stay up on the trends because that worries me sometimes that I’ll get old, but, I’m not. Classic, I

mean, timeless and classic go together. They do. It’s not old and tired, it’s still progressive, yet it’s authentic and people know what to expect.

And that’s it. People, I want people to know, especially when I decided I wanted to brand C&S and I’m very proud of what we’ve done so far. Getting that thing all moving in the same direction, because that’s hard. And so no, that timeless, original, classic being a hometown guy and when I say that it’s wide variety and pristine, that’s it.

That’s it. Like I will lose my mind. Like I love, Peno Caritas, okay. He owns, chops and Buckhead Life Restaurant Group. And I, when I was a young man, I got that job. I got the GM’s job when I was 29. And he used to always, he always used to talk to him all the time. And I remember he kept me in his office one time.

And man, it seemed like hours over shrimp. And I said, this guy has lost his mind talking about shrimp. Right now this week is flounder because I can’t like, I can’t find the flounder that I want. And I’m like the flounder and I will drive, I’m driving everyone crazy because you have to have that. And like I said, it’s back to the details of the center of the plate protein.

And we don’t like when we say it’s red snapper, it’s red snapper. And it’s not, mangrove or mutton or whatever okey doke that people want to pull. That’s what kind of, and for the longest time this original and timeless thing, especially when the recession happened, everybody went to a little bit more trendy and smaller place and everything like that.

And I’m like, how the hell am I going to do black grouper and red snapper small place? And make it $15. And, I was doubting myself, but now, we’ve been around 19, 18 years and, keep pushing along, we should have more restaurants than we have, but it’s not easy, man.

So that’s what, that’s the long answer to that.

What about your beverage program? Very profitable. Is it wine, heavy on wines? Is it classic cocktails, signature cocktails, that sort of thing?

That has changed. We used to be real heavy on wine. When we opened we, I’m a wine guy. That’s what I like. I like it all, but I like wine the most.

And, I’m pretty much francophile. So we had a big European because it matched up. We had a lot of, a lot of white burgundies on there back when they were affordable and we just had all these nice wines and we sold it. Then recession happens and then that cocktail phase started.

I was like, actually, when we opened, when we first opened, I borrowed a lot of ideas from Balthazar. And employees only in New York because those are some of my favorite places. And it was just, it was simply just fresh squeezed classic cocktails and that worked. Then the recession happened and then, I just got sideways.

It took my eye off of it. Then we got back into it. Now, We sell more liquor than wine. And you’d rather do that anyway, because your profitability’s more. Beer’s an accompaniment. We don’t, it’s, we don’t sell any beer in our restaurants. I tried, I had 12 taps on it and I’m like, Oh, I’m gonna sell these craft beers.

And it was like, Okay, but now it’s more cocktails than wine, which is, which really helps because that can bring your total beverage cost way down, and you can just, and now, I didn’t set those 14 prices. They were already in the market, yeah, but the stuff’s, but the, what the fun thing about it is the quality, it used to be back in the 90s your well program, what’s the cheapest I can get.

And, you just put rock gut in every drink and try to make your money like that. And now that, it has to be quality. product that goes into your cocktails and you can’t even have junk in here, which, if you want to have some dignity it’s nice to have, and then, it’s a great source of pride for everyone.

And I have I have some good bartenders that help me with my cocktail program.

Front of house, on the floor, behind the bar, do you have suggestive selling that actively happens? Is there training on using your personality and product knowledge to sell to premium products, that sort of thing?

Yes, we have our training program, we call it, your spiel because there’s a, we have a we call it your spiel, you can, do you care for, just suggestive words. Do you care for one of our classic cocktails, a local beer or something from our wine list?

And then you have your wine, cause we have a wine, wines by the glass and we have. I don’t know how many wines we have on this, but it’s getting up there. My managers, two of them are about to pass their level two psalms and so we’re all in it, and so they’ll put that in their hands.

We also have a fish case up front, so they’ll guide them through the fish case, so you can look at it like you’re at a fish market. Butchers. So that’s in the spiel. Yep. That’s in the spiel. And water is a big one. We, we that’s, you’d like to sell water and the water is always a good one because water’s free.

And then now it’s 9, 10. We sell Hilden, which has always been it was John Schwank and I’s favorite when we were tasting, it was It was the water for the Ritz Carlton. The queen drank it. And then I was watching a documentary on Rupert Murdoch. He’s out on one of his yachts and guess what he’s drinking?

He’s drinking Hilton. So I went in through a, I went in through a fit. And if I see another bottle of X, Y, or Z, if it’s good enough for the queen, if it’s good enough for the Ritz, it’s good enough for Rupert Murdoch, we’re going to sell it. And if it’s not any, that’s as high ends as it gets, baby.

That’s what we do. Right now and we have daily specials that we push every day to keep everything, the same

specials.

Yeah. One offs that works. Okay. I could tighten that up a little bit. Some of them are a little with the economy being where it is right now, selling sea bass Oscar for, whatever I sell it for.

It’s probably, we might want to back off on that a little bit. But the problem is if you’re in, if you’re training these servers to go out there and be good salespeople, be killers, and to really read people and we’re there to sell,

But you there’s

a.

There’s a fine line between getting it being greedy and being like that, it’s the old story.

If you have product and restaurant knowledge, and you literally are able to present certain things as, these are very popular items, these are my favorites, you’ve got to try this, and use your personality behind it, it’s, Acting, basically.

This is show business, it’s acting, and people are going to appreciate a knowledgeable person making a suggestion versus just being an order taker. So it increases the check, it elevates the guest service experience, and all we’re doing is, Informing people of what we think or believe they will enjoy and appreciate.

And if you buy what you think is the is quality product, caviar, caviar games is very subjective. Cause you, the Lord knows who you’re getting from. So we get it from this place called Star Caviar. It’s a daughter and father team. They’ve been around since the 90s.

Like I guarantee it’s coming from here. I guarantee it’s coming from here because I was getting a caviar and I’m like, yo, man, this is not what I told you. I want to blah, blah, blah. And I’m like, the salesperson don’t know what the hell he’s talking about. I’m like, so I threw a fit and I was like, And I met this girl, she was so passionate about what she was talking about.

And I’m like, you’re selling all my caviar. So I’m like, I don’t care. Just the price is this little, I don’t care you’re doing it. Just make sure, you use really good, Alaskan King crab legs instead of something that comes from China. That’s tastes like you’re eating sodium. Like it’s pretty easy.

All we had to try to do is not burn it and we’re good.

How about marketing? What works? Do you have to spend much on marketing? Is it? You let me know. I don’t know.

I don’t know. It’s I love my PR team. I love Green Olive Media. I use them a lot. I don’t spend a lot on print ad because it’s being a numbers guy.

I have, I can’t put my, I can’t get my ROI on it,

there you go, you’re hitting the key right now. If it’s not trackable, and if you can’t tell if it’s delivering ROI,

you’re wasting your money. I think so. It’s in print, we’ll do some social media. We have some social media.

And I like it. About influencers

like hotel concierges and Uber drivers and that sort of thing?

We have, if you can hook one or two you’re good. It’s not like the old days. If we could get a, if you can get a van driver from the hotels and we’ve, we’re working on it, we’ve got a few and there’s just because I’m the, I’m from the old school because we, I worked in Buckhead and there were like hotels all around.

We would go around in Maggie Lacoste from Burnadam because that’s just a whole nother situation out there, up there in the theater district. But she’s go find you the concierge, never pay, to let them pay, make sure they bring them in and they come in and they eat. You just watch it, make sure people don’t take advantage.

And so that really worked. So we’ve got to, we’ve got, but a lot of that, a lot of that depends on the managers. The managers are going to have that kind of go get it kind of thing, but that works better than anything. Online reviews we’re responding to reviews, when you have a negative review, responding to a review a lot of the little, if you can get a blurb in the paper or something like that over, on Oyster Day or something like that’s really what I do.

But as far as paying for advertisement,

yeah. What about cross promotion? of your properties. Do you have any incentives for, we used to have a program, I used to call it the Great Dining Passport, and the way it worked was if you were to go to several of our restaurants within one month’s time, come back in, show us three guest checks for a certain amount, we’d give you a gift card to come back to any of the restaurants for another visit.

That was pretty popular.

I don’t do that that sounds, that, I don’t, I just, it’s never really But all of our restaurants are the same.

Okay.

They’re all the same. I don’t know. So you’re saying

The menus and the concepts, everything is the same? They’re just different locations around town.

They’re just different

locations. It’s like a, it is like going to eating at McDonald’s. Gotcha, gotcha. I have one up here. I’ve got, I have one in Roswell, which is in the suburb suburbs of Atlanta. Yeah. And it’s a casual place, a second place we opened because we were, we were broke and it was time to, open a restaurant, so we had to go on the streets and raise money like that.

But it, and it’s it’s a lot, it’s a lot of fun, but it’s so far removed from what we do in there. People know it, but I don’t know, we’ll see. When we get the steakhouse rolling, maybe that’ll do something and that’ll be probably in the next year, maybe. You’re

opening a steakhouse or that’s on the plan?

Yeah we are finalizing the lease right now. We’ve been working on that forever, how long it’s been. Fantastic. But that’s good. Yeah, so that’ll, we’ll see once that gets going on we’ll, we’re gonna, the plan is to, if that kicks, and I think it probably sh, it probably should, is to scale the C&S.

Because I have, I’m looking at some properties outside of state because I don’t know how many more of these go, are going to be viable in Atlanta. This next one we’re going to open is a big one. I think it’s going to be really big. Dude, it’s in a really good location. So if this, I’ll know within the first couple of months, if it’s going to be the new prototype.

And if it is, I’ve got my eyes circled on a couple of places. We’re just going to bam and go for it while we’re doing the steakhouse. If I don’t, if I

make it. Fantastic. What’s the typical day like for you, Rich? What’s your role day to day? Not as

I don’t, I’m up early. I’m up early, I get up at 4.

30, 5. 30, early and I hit the gym and do that. And then I check all my end of the night emails, which all managers send me, breaking down all the calls, read a synopsis of the night, just make sure everybody’s engaged. Make sure everything’s perfect. Percentages are on there. Go over that.

The food complaints, anything that was sent back, I just do that. Then I read reviews. After I do that, I go to the gym for a little bit. And then I come home and depending on whether I have meetings, I normally will have a meeting or two, and I, My, I don’t have an office anymore.

I work out of my home because I don’t like that overhead. Cause it’s just gonna, you need too many profits.

So I’ll get those out of the way and then I’ll go and I’ll work lunch normally and have meetings there and everything. And then normally I don’t work as many dinners as I used to.

I have a daughter, I have Journal managers that are highly incentivized I’ll work when we open a place, I’ll work to make sure that everything’s good. If I have a big VIP, like I have one tonight, I’m going to go in and sit in and see somebody I’ve come in and say hi.

But, for me to go in and Expedite I’m not just going to make matters worse. It just, I still am a value, but it’s my theory. And it took me a long time to be okay with this. And this is the newfangled me is to be okay without being in there 17, 18 hours a day, because there’s diminishing returns.

And I

tell my, and I tell my, and I believe that and I tell my general managers and I’m like, Hey, man. One, you need to take some time off, take a take a vacation, once you’re working over 50, 55 hours a week and they’re okay. Now, if they have to work a stretch because of whatever, then, hey man, if you’ve got to work, if it’s an opening and it’s not going right because we’re in an unorganized mess, then we’re all into it, we’re all in it together.

So if you’ve got to work three weeks in a row without a day off, hey,

whatever.

Whatever it takes. So that’s my role.

Awesome.

I, I spent a lot of time with compliance and a lot of time right now, like banks and, opening these places and going checking on construction, what my plan is, my banker is going to be real mad at me, but my plan is, he told me I could do one a year.

He told me I could do one a year, and so I’m doing one a year but I’m ready to crank that thing up after this one to two. So if I can do two a year, I’ve got, I have the people in place to do this. And I think it’s going to be, we’ll just have to, we’ll have to, it’s time for us to start financing some of these things on our own, which is not going to be a problem.

We do pretty well and we keep our cash. We’re a very disciplined company which I’m proud of that. And I learned that from Maggie Lacoze because she was a tough one. But, I’m like, she’s got a dance, she’s got a house in Mystique next to Mick Jagger. Mick Jagger comes in here.

And I was like,

Oh,

he’s real nice. I used to have to guard him from people and everything. He’s just a super nice guy, man. And I was like, I want to be like, yeah, me too. He’s the best. And so that’s how I did it. I just worked at these really nice places and watched people who, I’m like, man, I like what they’re doing.

How do I do it? Let’s just do what they’re doing. And then, some of the stuff you didn’t like, and then see what happens. Try not to go broke in the meantime.

It’s been great talking to you, Rich. I really enjoyed the conversation. You’re an operator’s operator.

I try my best. Alrighty.

I wish you the best of success, not only with your current restaurants, but with your future growth plans. Looks like you’re doing great things for the industry. You’re all about hospitality and that’s what it’s all about.

Thank you so much for having me. I really enjoyed talking restaurants with you.

My pleasure. It’s thank you. That was the Restaurant Rockstars podcast. Can’t wait to see you all in the next episode. Stay tuned, stay well, and thanks to our sponsors this week.

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